Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  11

  Has Watchtower been hacked?

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  "there are two kinds of companies in the world: those that know they've been hacked, and those that have been hacked and don't yet know it.

  " robert hackett, fortune.

  but how about watchtower?

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  Island Man

  What makes you think they've never been hacked? If they were hacked, do you think they will make that public?
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  36

  Jehovahs witnesses that believe its "The Truth" vs JW's who know it isn't

  by Christian Gutierrez in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey guys!

  what do you think is the percentage of jw's believe that it is the truth and the percentage of those who think it might be some false or all false??

  ?.

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  Island Man

  I think well over 90% of JWs believe/know that the Watchtower currently teaches some falsehoods. They only have to look at the fact that their teachings have always undergone changes, to conclude that it is likely they will have more changes in the future, which would logically mean that some current teachings are in error.

  The problem is that they value loyalty to the organization more than loyalty to truth, so the fact that Watchtower teaches falsehoods is brushed off by them as no big deal because "imperfect men" and "the light gets brighter" and "wait on Jehovah" and "where else can we go?". They hypocritically criticize other religions for the errors they teach, while bending over backwards to concoct all manner of ridiculous rationalizations to excuse the errors that have been taught and continue to be taught by Watchtower.

  They also stoop to the ridiculous practice of measuring their errors against those of Christendom and arbitrarily judging theirs to be forgivable based on bias. They tell themselves that their errors are somehow purer than the errors of Christendom so God will turn a blind eye to their errors but punish Christendom for theirs because ... because they use the name "Jehovah", and preach from house to house, and don't believe in the immortality of the soul, and don't celebrate birthdays, and Jehovah has an especially soft spot in his heart for these particular things and as a result he will overlook all their other hypocrisies and errors and injustices on account of them. Because Jehovah plays favorites when it comes to errors, you see. He hates the popular errors that Christendom teaches but he loves the obscure, weird errors that JWs teach.

  It all boils down to patriotism. JWs have been brainwashed into becoming blindly patriotic toward their organization, in much the same way that some are blindly patriotic to their country or to their soccer team or to their political party. You cannot reason with such people. Facts don't really matter to them.

  I think it's possible that as much as 20% of JWs no longer believe it's the truth, but continue on for purely social and family reasons. Many subscribe to the philosophy that "even if it's not the Truth it's still the best way of life". They use this reasoning to justify continued membership in, and support of, the organization. They are willing to pretend that it's the truth and not rock the boat. They may tell themselves that even if it's not God's organization then it's the least false of all the false religions.
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  23

  What actually happened AFTER Jesus zoomed up into the clouds and disappeared?

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what happened after jesus zoomed up into the sky?for a while, he was expected to return rather quickly.in the meantime, there was the “great commission” and evangelism to be tended to.. the jesus believers were meeting in people's homes.

  members of that community would take turns using private homes to gather.

  thus, they went house to house.. these footstep tracers of jesus (they called themselves akolouthontes "followers" or some called themselves mathetai or "learners.

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  Island Man

  I believe it's quite possible that the claim of Jesus' resurrection was in fact a hoax involving the stealing of his body from the tomb. That would explain why one of the gospels claims that the soldiers were paid to lie saying that his body was stolen. Maybe the soldiers didn't lie. Maybe that is, in fact, the truth and the writer is claiming that it's a lie to poison the minds of new, prospective converts so that they will disbelieve the stolen body truth when they hear it from critics of the religion. JWs do the same kind of thing today to their bible students: "People will tell you that we break up families and we're a cult. Don't believe them it's all lies by those who hate us".

  It's very interesting that gospel accounts relate that Jesus' disciples had trouble recognizing him after his resurrection. Another NT book suggests that the identity/recognition of the resurrected Jesus was kept hidden from most but revealed only to a few chosen ones. Think about it: This claim would be extremely convenient for explaining why no one noticed Jesus alive after his death - because he was never actually resurrected. His disciples can simply answer that refutation by saying no one saw him because his identity was kept hidden from all but a few. In other words, this hidden identity claim serves to make the claim of Jesus' resurrection unfalsifiable - at least from the perspective of persons saying no one saw Jesus alive after his death. And here's the best part:

  Resurrection hoaxing disciple: "Of course you saw Jesus. Do you remember that man you were speaking to on the road to Emmaus? That was Jesus! You didn't recognize him because his identity was miraculously kept hidden from you. But that was Jesus - you spoke to the resurrected Jesus!!"

  
  Gullible disciple: "I did? . . . I did . . . I saw the resurrected Jesus! I SAW THE RESURRECTED JESUS!!"

  See how that could work? What if the bulk of the 500 witnesses whom the bible claims saw the resurrected Jesus, were persons that were duped in a manner similar to the example above, using the hidden identity claim? What if, in a desperate bid to keep the religion going after the death of the historical Jesus, a hoaxer impersonated the resurrected Jesus; and the hidden identity claim was concocted to serve as cover for the fact that he didn't resemble the Jesus that all were familiar with? When people want to believe it's not hard to deceive them.
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  34

  Will Watchtower target the inactive?

  by ToesUp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if watchtower has no reason to df ones.

  they have just become inactive.

  do you all think wt will begin a witch hunt (df'ing) for these inactive ones?

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  Island Man

  Yes, I think it's possible that they will target inactive ones. But they won't use the word disfellowship. They will want to make it seem like it's all the doing of the inactive one. They will more likely say that such ones have disassociated themselves by virtue of their extended, willful inactivity. Maybe they'll institute a new policy that says an inactive one disassociates himself if he remains inactive for more than x years.

  This will serve to plug the hole to leaving through fading. And they can say that they don't punish anyone for being inactive, nor do they force anyone to continue attending meetings and field service, but that they respect person's' right to choose to be inactive or to choose to disassociate by extended inactivity.

  I think they will use it as a tactic to force fading JWs into returning. When the faded JW's time is coming close to the period where he will be classified as disassociated, the elders will call him and inform him that his non-attendance means his disassociation from the organization - along with all the negative implications - is imminent. They will ask him if this is what he wants or if he wants their help to be reactivated so that he can continue to have association with his JW family.
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  7

  Shunning

  by sinboi in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  did the org have any guidelines on shunning?.

  if the son is d/a or d/f, are the parents supposed to disown him, chase him out of the house?.

  for husband and wife, do they need to divorce or what?.

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  Island Man

  Minor children still living at home aren't to be shunned by parents or those living in the home.

  Adult relatives still living in a home with JWs aren't to be shunned by the relatives, but they're supposed to limit association to essential family communication and the DF'd adult isn't to eat at the same table with them nor participate with others in spiritual conversation or family worship.

  If a DF'd or DA'd adult is regarded by the elders as being a "threat to the spirituality" of other JWs living in the same home, then depending on who has ownership rights to the property, the adult ex-JW will either be thrown out of the house or the other JWs will leave. I think this is almost always the case, even if the ex-JW is not seen as an immediate threat, except in a situation where the adult ex-JW is unable to live independently. "Threat to spirituality" is also a condition on which a JW can divorce or separate from an ex-JW spouse.
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  26

  Prayers ,are they answered ? or is it just self delusion ?

  by smiddy3 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  after 33 years as a jw and leaving 25 years ago i think prayer can be summed up with the jews praying at the wailing wall.. all they are doing is talking to a brick wall ,and getting no feed back.

  and they expect an answer to their prayers ?!.

  christians /other beliefs might find that funny but they are no better off.. prayer is always a one way street you talk either vocally or mentally to god however you never get the same back .. if god " so loved the world that he doesnt want any to be destroyed but have everlasting life " then whats the problem with him audibly answering his servants prayers ?

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  Island Man

  It's just self delusion, and here's how it can be demonstrated:

  The only prayers that are ever "answered" are prayers for events that are possible without a god: Getting a new job, recovering from a recoverable illness, finding a life partner, finding your keys, etc. All these are events that are very much within the realm of possibility and so they will inevitably coincide with prayers asking for them, giving one the illusion of answered prayers.

  The only prayers that are never answered are prayers for events that are naturally impossible but should be possible with a god: An amputee regrowing a limb, a week old corpse coming back to life, a mountain being literally lifted up and transferred to the sea. All these are events that are impossible with man but should be possible with god. But prayers for such things are never answered. Why? Because there is no god listening to prayers.

  Possible events happen and they will inevitably coincide with prayers for them. Impossible events won't happen and will never coincide with prayers for them. There is no god listening to and answering prayers. It's all self-delusion through coincidences and confirmation bias.
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  6

  Bosquejos del superintendente de circuito (septiembre de 2017 a febrero de 2018)

  by accesible in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  aquí están los cuatros bosquejos.... https://drive.google.com/open?id=0bywm0b0qtwlsekvnn0zxrmlzalu.

  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0bywm0b0qtwlsy2pulwfplv91duk.

  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0bywm0b0qtwlsnhzsa2hitfa3cxc.

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  Island Man

  Circuit Overseer outlines (September 2017 to February 2018)
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  7

  Elder lying to me about a child molester.

  by karter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was talking to an elder recently about all sorts of things non j.w related.. he said something about a guy in his congregation who is related to my ex wife and molested a little girl.. i said " i don't want to hear anything about that guy after what he did".

  elder"i dont know what he did".

  me" he is a child sex offender".

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  Island Man

  But remember: according to Watchtower's definition of lying, it's not really a lie if the elder believes you're not entitled to know the truth.
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  35

  September 1, 2017 BOE Re: Protecting Minors From Abuse?

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i have it in spanish for now: .

  1 de septiembre de 2017 a los cuerpos de ancianos asunto: protección de los menores contra el abuso.

  please send this letter to me from any branch you have access to, in any language.

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  Island Man

  I'm not sure crossing out paragraph 19 of chapter 12 of ks10 is a step in the right direction. On the surface, it appears to be but notice what is being crossed out:

  If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal
  decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision.

  This is being replaced with:

  they should be clearly informed about their right to file a complaint with the authorities.

  Notice the elders aren't being told to make it clear to the parents that there are no sanctions for reporting. They're only mandated to tell the parents that it's their right to report to the police. Then the elders are told to not criticize anyone for making that decision.

  I can well imagine elders comparing the new instruction with what they're being told to cross out to see what the difference is and, when noticing that the new instruction does not say to tell the parents there are no sanctions for reporting, might conclude that they should not tell this to the parents. So I can see a conversation going like this:

  Elders: It is your right to make a report to the police if you so desire.
  Parents: But would that bring reproach on the congregation? Would that affect our standing in any way?
  Elders: All we can say is that it is your right to make a report to the police if you so desire.

  Parents go away thinking that the elders are legally required to tell them that it's their right to report but that their unwillingness to say what effect such reporting would have on their standing, might be a subtle way of hinting to them, by omission, that they should not report because there will be adverse consequences, and that maybe they're legally barred from explicitly saying so.

  They should have replaced paragraph 19 of chapter 12 of ks10 with:

  Be sure to clearly inform the victim and/or their parent(s) that reporting the matter to the authorities is a moral responsibility and that there are no congregation sanctions for doing so. (Leviticus 5:1; Matthew 22:39; Romans 13:1-4)

  
  
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  25

  Anybody watch Game of Thrones?

  by shakyground in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i started watching game of thrones and it has become my fav tv show in a long time.

  i may even read the novels.

  i love fantasy novels and movies, i always tried not to like them and felt bad when a new book came out and always gave in and read it lol.

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  Island Man

  I have only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes - a couple years ago - and never continued. I plan to start binge watching soon.